Mexico Districts

[Tim_Balm]

I have a Mexico #4 with the "OMETEPEC" as the district printed vertically.

[numones]

Tim,
Your "Ometepec" #4 is causing some excitement behind this keyboard!!!  You are right.  There is no "Ometepec" district.  

So, if it is "Temascaltepec" #4, Celis Cano catalog says that 300 were sent to the district, and the coefficient is "R" (a number in excess of 100).  In case someone is not familiar with Celis Cano and their coefficients  --  They list the most common districts with a coefficient of 1.  Stamps from the scarcer districts are given coefficients of up to 100.  A stamp with a coefficient of, say 10, is worth 10 times what the most common districts are.  The most scarce stamps are listed with an "R" as coefficient.  I think of it as "rare", but it is really a Spanish word that might mean rare.  Nick Follansbee (an auctioneer of Mexico stamps) has published a catalog of Mexico.  My copy is 1998.  There is a newer one out.  He gives the value of Temascaltepec #4 as $1,000.00.  

The other possibility was "Sultepec".  If that proves to be the case, you have the only one known to have survived!  Both Celis Cano and Follansbee say that stamps were sent to the district, but none are presently known.

The third sad possibility is that it is a counterfeit.  

This stamp will certainly get you some good discussion if nothing else.  It really needs an expert to look at it.  

Although I have a big interest in Mexico #1's, I do not feel like I have a real solid grasp of it.  So, if others can make corrections to this reply, please do.  

[Jesper]

Do we have a member of MEPSI who could ask there on Tim's behalf

[Tim_Balm]

Thanks for the try Dave.  The district overprint is very clear on this stamp - a lot clearer than many of my Mex #1-5's.  I agree that it needs an expert to look at it, but I am unwilling to pay the APEX fee for this one until I get a little better understanding of whether or not it is a forgery..  

Jesper's note about any MEPSO members jogged my memory.  I bought a couple of Mexico #2s on eBay a while back from a guy who is a long-standing MEPSI member and does a fair amount of buying/selling both on and off of computer auctions.  He might be the expert that I could use.  I just sent him an email.  I'll let folks know what I hear.

[numones]

Tim,
We might be closing in on something.  Is that for sure a district overprint, and not a cancel?  While digging a little more this evening I found in Schatzke's book of Mexico cancels a listing for a town of Ometepec in the Acapulco district.  But strangely, even though this book shows all the cancels for all the towns in all the districts of Mexico, the cancels for the Acapulco district are not shown in my book.  Must be a typo or printing mistake.

Looking again at Celis Cano, here is the way he lists --  "Ometepec (no se conoce)" in the Acapulco district.  I do not understand the language.  Maybe you do?

[Tim_Balm]

Very interesting!!!  This printing does not resemble a cancel, but who knows.  It has the same type of print as the other districts and reads vertically down the right side of the stamp, just like the district overprints.  Very nice lead, though,  I really appreciate the research.  Lets see if my email to Bubba Bland leads to the same place.

Looking again at Celis Cano, here is the way he lists --

[Jesper]

OK, I can't take it anymore - I have to interfere in your cozy little chat

Now, when you want something translated from any language to any other language you come to me! I am a webmaster, you know!

The phrase "no se conoce" translates from Spanish to English as "it is not known". Basta!

I obviously took advantage of a little help from the nice web site at http://searchenginez.com/translate.html

[Tim_Balm]

The phrase "no se conoce" translates from Spanish to English as "it is not known". Basta!

True enough, Jesper.

[numones]

Tim,
If that "Ometepec" on your #4 is actually a district overprint, I think it has to be a counterfeit.  Is it possible to get a scan up somewhere so we can see it?  Of course, some of those scans do not reveal much anyway.    If you do decide to go for a certificate, a MEPSI cert is probably better in this case than APEX.  They may use the same experts, but just the same, if I was buying a rare Mexico item, I would accept an APEX cert with full confidence that the opinion was valid, but would prefer a MEPSI cert.    

[Tim_Balm]

I have now heard from Bubba Bland.  Following is an excerpt from Bubba's email to me.

Sultepec or Temascaltepec would be the overprint on the 4R, but it should be complete; however, these district overprints are normally very poorly printed.  The telling of that district is normally in the cancel. This overprints are 15.5 x 2 mm and 23.5 x 1.25 MM between periods. Another thing you may have, or you are reading would be a cancel on an otherwise w/o ovpt stamp. The ending of TEPEC is common on many of the towns and villages in Mexico, but since I don't have my copy of Schatzkes, I am at a loss looking up that one here. One word or caution, is that any of the rare districts found on 4R issues are suspect, since that issue is the most faked of all the first issue stamps, especially when it
comes to valuable districts and cancels. These are done on the so called reprints. Go to askphil.org and look up referecence to the fakes. I helped thingy Sine on the 4R issue and it has a lot of things to look for in detecting fakes in that issue. Sorry I don't have the URL here.

So, David, your detective work may have come up with the answer.  I replied to Bubba and asked if the Ometepec cancel was simply a strike of the city name as he implies might be the case.  Also, I found the AskPhil.org article (under AskPhil Academy, at bottom of the right column) to be of some guidance in characteristics of the forgeries.

More later (if I get additional info).

[Tim_Balm]

Jesper, is it possible to post a scan as David suggests?  Or is the size an issue here?

Is it possible to get a scan up somewhere so we can see it?

[Jesper]

Well, Tim, you should know that my motto is:
"The impossible we do right away; miracles take a little longer..."

I'd have to set up a special page or fit the image on a page we have (the Mexico page!?). It can't really be posted on the forums, sorry.

The only issue would be if it is a large image (file size) - the download time might be considerable if you use a modem.

At first I'd simply e-mail David (and myself, I'm a curious guy ;-) a scan of the stamp in question. Perhaps we'll hear an outcry from the members who also want in on this "scoop"

[numones]

I notice 55 readings at the top of this topic.  I thought it would generate some interest.   My latest thought, which might change again, is that it is probably a forged district overprint rather than a cancel.  District overprints and cancels don't really look very much alike.  Usually.

[Tim_Balm]

I notice 55 readings at the top of this topic.

[Tim_Balm]

While we are awaiting the scans of the OMETEPEC stamp, here is another quandry...